National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions) (No. 2) Order 2006

My Lords, this transfer of functions order and the variation of the 1999 transfer order are the precursor of business to come next year, when many Orders in Council will arrive here for debate as a result of the Government of WalesAct 2006. I look forward to many initiatives of progressive legislation coming here from the Welsh Assembly Government and the National Assembly for Wales after next April, when the Government of Wales Act is implemented. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, and the Minister have adequately outlined the structure we are discussing. I shall not detain the House by going over all of what has been said. However, the three census issues, the Environmental Protection Act 1990, the variation of the 1999 Act and the Water Industry Act 1991 are contained in these measures. We welcome these measures, which are timely, and all the detailed information that the Minister and his team have provided. The census has been a controversial issue for some time. There was denial of the very fact that one was of Welsh origin, although the census in Wales did ask whether one was Irish, English or Scots. It was an incredible anomaly. The ““no tick box”” issue was an amazing situation for the Welsh, in their own country. I am pleased to see that there has been a quantum leap in putting such anomalies right. A number of things have concerned me over the years. For many years the Office for National Statistics issued no statistics at all for my area, Powys. Earnings, employment and especially GDP figures were ““unavailable””. I bombarded the ONS and the Welsh Office for information but it was not forthcoming for a long time. Fortunately, that has recently been put right. Eventually, in the mid-1990s, some figures emerged just in time to prove that the GDP in Powys was only1 per cent above the 75 per cent level requiredto qualify for Objective 1 funding. So Powys got Objective 2 funding. But then 12 wards receiving Objective 2 funding in Powys were somehow transferred to Cardiff, leaving little or no Objective 2 funding in south-east Powys. It illustrates the importance of ensuring that we get the correct statistics and that the Welsh Assembly is able to provide variations. I remain unconvinced that health needs are not accurately compiled in existing census information. The important points of demography and poor health from a lifetime of hard physical work by, for example, miners, steelworkers, farmers and farm workers—of which Wales has a high percentage—have resulted in greater health needs in Wales. Indeed, if that is put together with a low-wage economy, it kicks back to resources—at the moment, the NHS in Wales is in debt to the tune of £100 million—the Barnett formula and the block grant. Unless we have good statistics from the ONS and sub-regional information from the Assembly, Wales will lose out because inadequate information will result in inadequate resource allocation. We must remind ourselves that Wales is one of the poorest areas in the United Kingdom, with average GDP at only 80 per cent of the UK average. Planning matters in the use of statistics. Transfer of the power under Section 156 of the Environmental Protection Act to make regulations is all about waste on land and matters allied to it. It will allow the Assembly to take care of European Community issues on the one hand and international obligations on the other. In such matters it is vital to have cohesion with England. Those are undoubtedly excellent and sensible objectives. They impact on crucial issues such as hazardous waste and it is good that the Welsh Assembly Government will be able to produce their own regulations and not have to rely on Defra. Other important and interesting issues relate to the Water Industry Act 1991, for example, and deal with preventing contamination or waste of the public water supply by means of water fittings. Amendments will be made to the National Assembly for Wales (Transfer of Functions Order) 1999 and the regulations will then apply to water or sewage undertakers. Although we welcome these transfers of functions under the 1991 Act, a question remains. In the information which the Minister gave us there was mention of water undertakers whose areas are mainly in Wales. As the Minister will know, some water undertakers areas are mainly in England though they have functions, customers and consumers in Wales. When I was a Member in the other place, there was a situation where a water undertaker whose main operations were in England long refused to sortout the sewage situation in the town of Knighton, which was in my constituency. It took a long time and a lot of hard words to get it to do anything at all about the situation—which actually prevented housing development. Indeed, sewage pipes were overflowing. So this is a two-way business for water undertakers. Dwr Cymru, for example, operates in more or less the whole of Herefordshire, and people in England can say the same thing in reverse of what I have just said about the situation in Wales. We therefore hope that these transfers will ensure that there are obligations on water undertakers that operate mainly in England but have functions in Wales. That is a cross-border issue that is complicated and needs sorting out. Finally, why was the Welsh Assembly Government or the National Assembly for Wales not consulted on the transfer of these functions? The Minister was candid when he said that Defra was one of the consultees and the Wales Office was another, but there was no consultation with the Welsh Assembly Government or the National Assembly for Wales. I have extrapolated that omission and am sure the Minister will tell me if I am wrong in that. On the whole, however, we welcome these transfer orders and are grateful for the information that the Minister provided.