Police and Justice Bill

My Lords, I shall deal first with the point raised by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick. I wholeheartedly agree with him about the accuracy of the points made by my noble and learned friend Lord Boyd on the last occasion when we discussed this matter; they were absolutely correct. Secondly, if the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, was accepted, we would not be able to guarantee ratification because those forum amendments are outwith the treaty. Therefore, it would be open to our American colleagues to say that they were not prepared to ratify the treaty unless and until those provisions were expunged. The noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, said that in realpolitik, although we might be accused of acting in bad faith in not having raised those matters, the benefits of the treaty are so clear that the Americans may feel obliged to concur. That is not a way in which we do business in this country; it is not a way in which we ratify and deal with treaties. I heard the noise that came from the other side, but I remind the House that this treaty was negotiated in a similar way to the way in which many other treaties were negotiated. There may be a feeling in this House that in future we should not be able to enter into treaties unless and until Parliament has spoken and has gone through every scintilla, and until every ““i”” has been dotted and every ““t”” has been crossed. But that is not how we do business at the moment, and it is not how any Government before us have done business. However, that is probably a debate for another day. To deal with the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, in relation to the 1985 position, I assure him that the 1985 supplementary treaty disapplies the political offence in extradition. That has been continued in the 2003 treaty. The situation to which the noble Lord referred could not now occur.