Animal Welfare Bill

My Lords, on that latter point I absolutely agree. I suspect I shall not be able to deal with it now, but I shall get it looked into. There is clarity—we are passing legislation—and the example given by the noble Countess would, I hope, not affect many people, but it would affect some. People should not be pushed from pillar to post. It is also important that the right language is used, because there are different departments and they are not always called the same in each local authority. The State Veterinary Service needs to be aware of that when it gives information to the public. I have just reread the part of my briefing headed ““purpose and effect””, which is always useful and sometimes even better than the speaking notes, because it explains the amendment in a more encapsulated way. That is useful particularly in a complicated area such as this one. Clause 49 defines the term ““inspector”” for the purposes of the Bill. An inspector will be an officer of either a local authority or an ““appropriate national authority””. In practice, an inspector of the appropriate national authority is likely to be a state veterinary service inspector. Only those inspectors and police constables will be able to exercise the powers of entry, search and seizure under the Bill. Clause 49(2) will require local authorities to have regard to any guidance issued by the appropriate national authority when they appoint their inspectors for the purposes of the Bill. We anticipate that this guidance will set out relevant criteria for appointing inspectors—qualifications, experience and so on—and may include a list of approved people who are considered suitable for such an appointment. Amendment No. 40A would require any inspector appointed under Clause 49 not to present evidence without the approval of that evidence by the State Veterinary Service. We are not clear, which is why we need to have some discussions about it, whether the amendment is suggesting that local authority officers cannot present evidence without the evidence being approved by the SVS, or just inspectors appointed by a national authority. In practice, under the Bill, an inspector will either be an officer of a local authority or an SVS inspector. A local authority could appoint someone on a temporary or part-time basis. Persons appointed on such a basis would be authorised officers of the local authority, and the authority would still be responsible for their actions. This amendment would result in a lot of unnecessary administrative work for the SVS. It is based on the false assumption that local authority inspectors do not have the sense to recognise when they need to obtain advice from a veterinary surgeon. We think it fails to understand that much of the work a local authority inspector does is well within the competency of a lay person and that input from a veterinarian is not needed. Where, in the course of an application to a court or a prosecution, evidence from a veterinarian is necessary, that will need to be obtained and presented to the court. In some cases it will be appropriate for that vet to be an employee of the SVS. In other cases, a private vet may be the right person. I hope that that gives clarification. We are currently looking at the protocol between the police, the RSPCA, local authorities and the State Veterinary Service. We do not anticipate any changes in how the law is currently enforced. We are satisfied that we have a clear perception of what their various roles are, notwithstanding the points I have made. I thought it was worth putting that on the record. In the short time available before Wednesday, or whatever day we have down for Third Reading, I will get some clarification, particularly on the example I was asked about by the noble Countess.