Animal Welfare Bill

My Lords, there is a strong case for considering the point just made by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, that we should be a proper revising Chamber, rather than what I think we are—more of a repetition Chamber presented with a fait accompli: we either vote down an order or accept it; and I do not remember the last time that the House voted down an order. There is a strong case for considering the powers of what would be a revising Chamber, but that is a matter for another day. I am sure that powers and competencies of a second Chamber will be widely debated in future. On Amendment No. 14, which was tabled in Grand Committee as part of a large group, we do not think it necessary to legislate in that way for something that we think should take place in practice anyway. The Secretary of State and the National Assembly for Wales would always take existing scientific evidence into account when framing regulations, in line with best practice in policy-making. In addition, the Government intend to make regulations only to the extent to which they are necessary to promote the welfare of animals for which a person is responsible. Emphasising the use of scientific evidence risks excluding some other important factors that should be taken into account when considering whether to legislate, such as social and economic consequences. One must consider the matter in the round. In answer to the latter point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, we are committed to evidence-based policy-making. Where there is overwhelming public concern about a particular issue, the evidential base may take account of the views of the public as well as any available scientific studies. The two examples of which I am reminded are the banning of veal crates and sow stalls, where you could argue whether the science was in favour of a change but the overwhelming public concern, the economic and social aspects, gave weight to the need to regulate, as we did. That must not be ruled out. In other words, looking at the science is not the be-all and end-all; there are other factors to be taken into account. Amendments Nos. 15 to 18, 22 to 25 and 51 all reflect commitments that I gave in Grand Committee and to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I trust they are well received. I believe I can be fairly brief. Amendments Nos. 15 and 25 introduce a duty to consult before introducing licensing and registration requirements under Clause 13, and before revoking a code of practice under Clause 17. Amendments Nos. 16 to 18 and 22 to 24 relate simply to drafting, so I shall not go into them in detail. Amendment No. 51 reflects an undertaking that we gave to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee that there should be a parliamentary procedure for revoking and not replacing a code of practice, which would reduce the welfare protection available to those previously covered by the code. We do not think that that will happen often, if ever, but because it would be an exceptional occurrence, we certainly agree that parliamentary scrutiny of the decision would be appropriate. Amendments Nos. 19 to 21 would require codes of practice made under the Bill to be exercisable by statutory instrument and thereby approved by the affirmative procedure. Clause 59 makes it clear that the powers in the Bill to make orders or regulations are exercised by statutory instrument, which has the effect of applying the provisions of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946. Subsection (2) further requires that any regulations to extend the definition of an animal, to exempt mutilations, to promote welfare or to introduce licensing or registration schemes would have to be approved by the affirmative procedure described in the subsection. I should point out, however, that codes of practice are not legislation and cannot therefore be statutory instruments according to the meaning that the Statutory Instruments Act 1946 gives to them. The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee also considered the negative procedure sufficient for its report on the Bill. In the past five years, the House has always accepted the recommendations of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. There was one exception—I do not remember what it was and I do not recall whether I was at the Home Office or the ODPM at the time—where the House decided to go further. It was very unusual, however. By and large, the House accepts the committee’s recommendations. I therefore hope that the government amendments are accepted, and that my answer to Amendment No. 14 in particular is acceptable.