Animal Welfare Bill

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his response, which I thought was very measured. I totally agree that the industry has the wrong impression and that there is a lot to be done. I felt that this would be a worthwhile debate at this stage; indeed, I think that, whether people have agreed or disagreed with me, important points have been made. Before I decide what I will do, let me just thank everyone who has contributed. I am well aware of the Defra group and the all-party group that is looking into the whole question of the future welfare of greyhounds. Again, I think that, whether people agree with me or not, we all want better welfare—that is what the debate is all about. The question is how we do it. I make those general points now and will come back to the Minister’s response. I could say that the reference of the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, to hunting was a little below the belt, but I am quite used to having a belt that moves up and down. My amendment does not propose a ban in any way or form on greyhound racing. In fact, I hope that, even if the amendment has to be redone, it would give greater strength to the industry and make it go forward, so I thought it a little surprising, and a little unlike him, that the noble Lord decided to take that route. It was not me who raised this issue—my amendment followed on from the Sunday Times article—but the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, will know very well that I wound up in a debate on greyhound welfare three or four years ago, so he cannot say that I am a latecomer to this business. I have been taking a very great interest in it for some time. I accept that the industry has made some improvements. I said that earlier and I complimented the noble Lord on what it had done, but it is too little and too late. I should have liked the industry to have moved further forward. However, that is for another day. I shall not repeat the comments of my noble friends Lord Lucas, Lady Fookes and Lord Onslow or the noble Lord, Lord Kirkhill, because I think that they were basically in favour of what I am trying to do in achieving better welfare. Therefore, I excuse myself from picking up on their comments. The noble Lord, Lord Hoyle, raised the question of unregulated tracks—a point that I brought up in Committee. This is an enormous problem. Although the regulated industry says that it can cope, I am not convinced that it can; nor has it told us what action it will take. If the owners of unregulated tracks wish to continue to run greyhound racing in their own way, there is nothing at present to bring them back into the fold. So I am still very concerned about that. My noble friend Lord Kimball may be slightly more in favour of the status quo. His background knowledge is much greater than mine and I can understand his view, but I hope he will accept that I have grave concerns that the industry may not have moved far enough. However, he raised the very important question of identification—a matter that we have mentioned during different debates on farming and agriculture. I refer, in particular, to identification tags on the ears of sheep and cattle, which get ripped out, and microchipping might be one way of overcoming that problem. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Bilston, whom I also thank for his contribution, is slightly happier and more satisfied than I am with the current standing of the regulatory board. He acknowledged that there are many issues to be addressed. At this stage, there are sufficient to make me unsure that the board will achieve what I know some of its members wish to do. It is not that they do not know what they wish to do. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Christopher. If I table another amendment on this issue, perhaps he will add his name to it. He raised the very important issue of the problems caused by lack of data, which it would be an enormous help to have. I hope that I have not missed out people who have spoken. If I have, I apologise, as I greatly valued all contributions. I return to what the Minister said and the offer that he made. He said, as I and others have done, that at present the industry should be doing more. We all agree with that. The question is: how do we go about it? What do we do with the industry members that are not regulated? I am well aware of the work that is being done by the other groups and I do not wish to take issue with that. I am also aware that the Minister has been persuaded to give the welfare of greyhounds a higher priority. We have met him and his officials outside the Chamber and I accept what he said about the difficulties that have to be faced: there will be much work to be done on the Bill; a lot of codes of practice and regulations will be required; and there are timetabling pressured in that regard, let alone financial pressures. I am grateful to him and his colleagues for recognising that the welfare concerns relating to the greyhound industry should have been brought higher up the pecking order. That is an enormous help. I ask myself where that leaves me. I am grateful for, and encouraged by, the comments that have been made by noble Lords on all sides. I should like to look at Hansard very carefully when it is printed tomorrow to see whether there are issues that the Minister and I will have a chance to talk about to see whether we can do something before Third Reading, which is due to take place a week on Wednesday. I do not wish to be disruptive but it is an issue that has taken a long time to be addressed, and it has still not been fully and properly addressed. This is the time to say that the issue should be taken into consideration, before the Bill do pass.