Police and Justice Bill

moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 138, Amendment No. 139: Line 13, leave out ““is satisfied”” and insert ““has reasonable grounds for believing”” The noble Baroness said: My Lords, as the noble Baroness rightly forecast, the amendment merely probes the basis on which the Minister would issue a warrant, and I am grateful for her answer. Of course we support the broad thrust of the policy that the noble Baroness has brought forward today. We simply had concerns about the practicability of the Government’s proposals, and it was in that spirit that I put forward the series of questions to the Bill team. I am grateful to the Minister for addressing them. They were necessarily lengthy and detailed questions simply because, of course, when these matters return to another place, as ever, they can be considered only in the very truncated procedure of Commons consideration of Lords amendments. It was important not merely for this House and another place but for the public generally that the noble Baroness should put the matter on record in some detail, as she has today. I am very grateful to her. There is one issue that we need to consider, although I do not think that the noble Baroness will address it tonight. She has said that this is merely enabling legislation and that the Government will wish to negotiate or renegotiate a number of agreements. We need to consider the balance of those going out and those coming in—how many prisoners from other countries we will be receiving and what impact that will have on any net saving the Government can realistically achieve. Just as the noble Baroness does not want to tease me about ID cards, I do not want to tease her on the current state of our prisons and the Government’s haste in trying to get rid of as many people as possible. As far as we are concerned, even if the Government proceed with the costly process of having identity cards for everybody in this country, I do not think they need the National Identity Register to achieve a proper count of prisoners and where they come from. But as I say, we are beyond teasing at this stage of the evening. I was interested in the noble Baroness’s comment about those who are detained under mental health legislation. I am grateful to her for pointing out that this is enabling legislation and the Government have not yet made a decision. That is a reasonable response. I do not propose to go through the remaining matters; the noble Baroness has addressed them, although not necessarily to everyone’s satisfaction, because we are looking to the future. However, underpinning the Government’s amendments are proposals with which we can concur. I beg to move.