Police and Justice Bill

had given notice of his intention to move, as an amendment to Amendment No. 129, Amendment No. 129A: Line 3, leave out ““likely”” and insert ““principally”” The noble Earl said: My Lords, I am not sure whether I am speaking at the right time, but now seems logical. The noble Lord, Lord Lawson, is right. I do not believe that the courts will interpret the word ““likely”” as meaning more likely than not, because it does not say that. This is trying to catch people advertising on the internet who say, ““Here you are. Here are some great hacker tools. Why do you not download these?”” The trouble is that people who are trying to supply—possibly without selling—a subsidiary company or part of a group things that will help to maintain, assist or test computer systems will be caught also by this wording. It is impossible to write something to maintain a computer system remotely or test the security of a computer system which can be used only for that purpose. Everything written for that purpose can be turned around by someone who wishes to use it for hacking. As the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, said, it will be used by hackers. Therefore, the word ““likely”” means that everyone is prosecutable by the courts. I have heard people say, ““They can look at what the Minister said””, but unless it is ambiguous there is no requirement to look at the parliamentary debate. The word ““likely”” is unambiguous. Therefore, I am afraid that the courts will find that the Government have a case just to say, ““Well, we can prosecute you””. They do not even need to look. The intention behind this was not to prosecute the good guys. Nowhere in the Bill says that. Another sentence saying, ““If you are a good guy, we won’t prosecute you””, would perhaps be all right. Between now and Third Reading, the Government need to think of something that means ““more likely than not”” or ““the primary purpose”” or something like that. Otherwise, I will come back with something at Third Reading myself. [Amendment No. 129A, as an amendment to Amendment No. 129, not moved.] On Question, Amendment No. 129 agreed to. Clause 43 [Transitional and saving provision]: