Police and Justice Bill

My Lords, we look forward later on today to the Minister conceding on other matters and accepting our principles with regard to issues on tripartite balance. The comity could continue—let us see. I shall speak to my Amendments Nos. 12, 14, 15, 16 and 17 and the government amendments. As the Minister said, we return to the concerns that we expressed in Committee regarding the Government’s intentions in shaping the membership of police authorities. The Minister says that the new amendments achieve a better balance between what goes into primary and secondary legislation. We are prepared to accept the government amendments, although not on the basis that we think that they are 100 per cent correct, because we would have preferred to retain the matters in primary legislation. We noted the report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, which states at paragraph 20 that it considered it inappropriate for the Bill to leave so much to subordinate legislation. The committee drew attention to the fact that a police authority has a key role to play in the delicate constitutional balance between the Secretary of State, the police authority and the chief constable. The composition of the authority is therefore more significant than that of many other statutory bodies. However, we accept that the Government have tabled amendments which meet most of our concerns. As the noble Baroness anticipated, I am grateful to her that the position of lay magistrates on the authority will be protected and that at least one member should be a lay justice. I recognise the ability and expertise that is brought to police authorities by lay magistrates. I hope that in areas where it is appropriate more than one will be appointed. The police authority should make that decision. In particular, it is important that chairs and vice-chairs should not be appointed by the Secretary of State, or that he should influence the matter. I welcome that change. I certainly welcome the progress that has been made. I shall listen with interest to what the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, says. His proposals have the full support of the Association of Police Authorities. I record my thanks to that association for coming to the House during the Recess to brief me further on progress that might be made on the Bill. I support the government amendments and will not press mine.