Animal Welfare Bill

My Lords, in just over 30 years in Parliament, I have yet to speak on an animal welfare Bill. That is not because I do not recognise the great importance of animal welfare—indeed, I have in both Houses supported any animal welfare Bill that has gone through. However, two particular issues have prompted me to speak today. One is my Jack Russell, Bertie, who is aged three. I am not sure whether he is categorised as a working dog. We have a lot of rabbits, and he is quite good at catching them. Rabbits have to be controlled—I do not have a farm, I have 30 acres. He is an even better ratter, and thanks to his presence we have no rats. His predecessor, a whippet—they are not known as working dogs although they can run damn fast—was singularly ineffective at catching rats, and we had to deal with them using other methods. With Bertie in mind, I turn to the definition of working dogs in Clause 6. From memory, one would normally buy a dog at six to 12 weeks old—certainly not within five days. How on earth is a prospective purchaser who believes that he needs a working dog to establish one in a litter? Therefore, the points raised by a number of noble Lords about the poor old vet who is charged with establishing within five days the demand for working dogs—I do not know whether there are any papers on that, although presumably the Office for National Statistics must have some evidence—suggest that the Bill, in its present form, is singularly unworkable. Secondly, it is with enormous trepidation that I question the view of my noble friend Lord Soulsby about pain suffered by dogs. I had a skin tag removed by electrocautery. I did not feel any pain at all. My understanding from the briefing that I received from the Council of Docked Breeds is that that is the modern method of docking. I think that I am reasonably sensitive; I was a pilot in the Royal Air Force and one’s hands, at least, are very sensitive, and the mind is pretty good, too. If I did not feel any pain, it is questionable whether a dog that is less than five days old would feel any. I could refer to other parts of my anatomy where I must have had surgery and where I certainly did not feel any lasting pain—at least, I cannot remember it. I do not know whether any of your Lordships in the same age group who underwent the same surgery can remember whether they felt any pain. So I say to my noble friend that it is pretty questionable whether a pup of that age feels any pain. When we come to the categories of what a working dog is about—lawful pest control—at this point, I do not require a licence to control the rabbits that are in my domain. I am not a licensed pest control operator because I do not work on anybody else’s land, but I certainly use the dogs to control the rabbits and I would be in deep trouble if I did not. I am not sure that the Bill covers that point. Then we come to the lawful shooting of animals. I am not clear about the difference between pest control and the control of animals, but presumably that will be defined in the regulations. Therefore, I suggest to the Minister that, when he comes to review the Second Reading debate and to consider amendments for Committee, if there really has to be some restriction, would it not be more sensible to do it by breed? The majority of dogs in a particular breed are used in some sort of working environment. I have had a plea from the Boxer community here; personally I cannot stand Boxers because they slobber all over you, but nevertheless I can understand that if you own a Boxer you have enough problems controlling it let alone dealing with its tail on top of everything else. I can see that people may feel very strongly. My plea is that, for heaven’s sake, let us have some legislation that is workable. Will I have to put in a bid to the vet at some point? Bertie wants a second Jack Russell because there are so many damn rabbits around that he is worked off his little feet. He does not need a tail to turn as well as any spaniel or any other dog. He can turn extremely quickly without a tail. He is pretty quick, as I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Christopher. I have two other points. Twenty years ago, we all used to hold up the RSPCA as a beacon of responsibility in matters to do with animal welfare and had 110 per cent trust in its judgment. Sadly, that is gone. I do not know why it has gone, but the RSPCA seems to have become a campaigning organisation rather than an animal welfare organisation. Therefore, the point made by my noble friend Lord Plumb about inspection and the importance of experience and qualifications—it is also made by many of the parties that make representations to noble Lords—is absolutely fundamental. While the individual RSPCA officer is still held in high regard, generally speaking, unfortunately one or two have become campaigning persons and that has depreciated the currency. My third point is about circuses, on which the RSPCA has made its views quite clear. It wants to ban all wild animals from circuses. I opened the letter that it sent this morning. It says:"““In March 2006, the Minister for Animal Welfare, Ben Bradshaw, announced that there would be a ban on ‘certain’ wild animals in travelling circuses. However, it remains to be seen which creatures will be banned, and we are keen to ensure that the ban includes all wild animals””." I can speak about only one breed of wild animal. Noble Lords may know that I have a deep involvement in Sri Lanka and India. In that part of the world, the elephant is the shire horse of the community. Elephants are working animals used for timber moving and a host of other jobs in their village communities. They are well looked after and an absolute asset. I can remember using one in Colombo to move some machinery that had been sent from the UK when there was no mechanical means of getting that machinery into the factory. Rajah was recruited and moved the equipment. There is only one elephant in any circus in the UK at the moment. I cannot speak for African elephants, because I know nothing about them, but Asian elephants are very much the horse of that part of the world and I see no reason why my children and particularly my grandchildren should be denied the opportunity to see them in zoos, where they do see them, and to see them if and when we go to the circus. We should recognise, for once, that we are a member of the wider community of Europe. The European Parliament has had a number of debates on circuses—far more than we have had here. Every time there is a debate in Europe, it centres on the role of the good circus and the fact that it is part of the life and culture of western European civilisation. That does not mean that there should not be proper control—all the animals that take part in the circuses, particularly the wild animals, should be looked after. But I hope that when we debate that aspect of the Bill, wherever it may appear, it will not be on the basis of the crusading role of the RSPCA, which wants to ban all wild animals from circuses.