Compensation Bill [HL]

The courts are quite good at sorting out many of these issues. It is always very difficult for me to look at individual cases, as the noble Lord will accept. Speaking in general terms, the courts are very capable of determining the circumstances and taking into account all the different factors. I completely accept what the noble Lord, Lord Greenway, was saying about the importance of volunteers. The work that we are doing with the Home Office is particularly focused on ensuring that we get the right number of volunteers and they are not deterred by the compensation culture. The latest figure that we heard was that something like 25 per cent of people who might have thought about volunteering raised it as an issue. I have no idea how prompted they were to raise it, but none the less it is a startling figure. It is important that we equip volunteers with the confidence as much as anything that in the circumstances in which they operate—provided they operate effectively, properly and with due care—they will be treated properly and not be found wanting, if that is not appropriate. There is another side to this. We are back to my see-saws. On the other hand, particularly with children and young people, you have to ensure that the quality of the support they get when taking on activities that may be ““risky”” is adequate to ensure that they are not put at undue risk. That balance is important. Just as I have always believed that it is important that in the Bill we make it clear that we want people to participate in activities and we want to support volunteers, the quickest way to prevent people not participating is to move in the other direction and say, ““We are not going to have any liability so it does not matter what you do””. I am not suggesting that anyone is saying that, but there is again a balancing act there. If I take off my ministerial hat and put on my mother hat, my daughter and my son participate in all kinds of things, but I know that the quality of the care and support that they get is appropriate. It does not mean that nothing will ever happen, but it does mean that when they are sailing or doing other activities they are guaranteed a high level of expertise, experience and quality from the instructors, and I can feel comfortable in them doing those activities. That is the balancing act that we are trying to achieve. The difficulty with the amendment is that effectively we are saying that when you have taken all the factors into account and determined that someone is liable, you can then add on at the end another factor that says, ““Ah, but would this have a detrimental effect on the community?””. There are two problems with that. First, if someone has been found liable, we have someone who needs support or help who has been a victim, and their ability to get redress has been reduced or negated by another factor, which is not right. Secondly, it could have an effect that I am sure is not wanted, which is about making sure that activities that have a major impact on the community are properly insured, because insurance plays an important part. I do not want to do anything in the Bill that might push us in that other direction of encouraging people to act less responsibly. I am keen to recognise that organisations, individuals and volunteers behave responsibly, and we should support them and give them confidence. I do not want to do anything that might push us in another direction; I am not saying that it would but I would not want anything that might do so. My difficulty with the amendment is those two things: first, that it could push us in that direction; and, secondly, that it would be something to be taken into account after someone has been found liable. These are rare cases; but they do happen. Occasionally we see cases where, frankly, an organisation or individual has behaved extraordinary badly towards another, and that individual has suffered as a consequence. The courts must have the capacity to say, ““You are liable; you must make redress””. I do not want to do anything to affect that. So on that basis, while I understand the underlying principles of what the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Lucas, are seeking to do, I hope that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw his amendment.