Children and Adoption Bill [HL]

My Lords, we are grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, for raising the issue. We have demonstrated, both in the amendments that I have moved this evening and in those that we have accepted from my noble friends, that we take the safety of children and all legislative and other means for ensuring that they are protected very seriously. That applies to the concerns raised by the noble Baroness too. I am not entirely closed-minded about the issues that she raises. As we have shown, we are prepared to consider all issues relating to child safety again and again where we think that changes would lead to a better regime for the protection of children. I invite the noble Baroness perhaps to tell me in more detail her concerns after the debate. She made a rather enigmatic remark about the courts not being unwelcoming—I think that was her phrase; it was something of that kind—to such guidance, or her having reason to believe that they might welcome it. I would very much welcome any information that she could give me on that, as our advice is that the courts are content with the status quo and have not exhibited any concerns about the absence of guidance for using their powers. Their powers as set out under Section 37 of the 1989 Act are very robust in the instructions that they can give to local authorities for the investigation of cases where there could be a public law dimension, and in which care orders or other interventions may be required. Our current position—subject to further discussion, which I am prepared to undertake—is that we do not see a case for the further guidance because it would meet no need. Therefore, it would not lead to an improved regime. Indeed, we are somewhat concerned that issuing guidance by the Secretary of State, as the amendment suggests, could even have the effect of limiting the discretion of the judiciary, despite all the eminent people that the noble Baroness suggests we should consult. We would then have to lay down the specific cases, or give indications of what those cases would be, where they should act, which could only have the effect of circumscribing the discretion of the courts, unless the guidance was so general that it did not serve to amplify in any way on Section 37 of the 1989 Act. We see this in the context of the amendments we have passed today. These amendments strengthen investigating procedures in respect of children who may be at risk. Amendment No. 27 moved by my noble friend Lady Gould sets out the statutory approach that we have now agreed to risk assessment. CAFCASS has made it clear that if its risk assessments alerts it to concerns for children, it will take the opportunity to refer them directly to the local authority to make the necessary investigations under Section 37 of the 1989 Act. Taking all this together, we are not at the moment persuaded that there is a case for further change, but we are mindful of the need to do everything we reasonably can to meet concerns about child safety. If the noble Baroness wishes to amplify on her earlier remarks to me, I would be happy to look at the matter further.