Charities Bill [HL]

My Lords, I agree with all that has been said by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, regarding the amendment which deals with a suitors’ fund designed to provide access to the tribunal. My amendment, Amendment No. 39, provides for a suitors’ fund to enable charities to take their case to the High Court. I prefer the wording of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips. If he were prepared to include the issue of the courts in addition to the tribunal, it would be a better amendment and both cases would be covered. Far fewer cases would go to the High Court than to the tribunal. In Committee, the amendment that I moved was opposed by the Minister. That is always the case when I move an amendment but I get over that. He opposed it on the grounds that the Legal Services Commission will be able to grant exceptional funding in certain cases, usually public interest or test cases. However, the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, who is an extremely eminent charity lawyer, replied that he was unaware of the legal authority of the Legal Services Commission and that the general position has been that legal aid is unavailable to charities. The noble Lord is not alone in that belief. I failed to find any charity lawyer who has ever heard of the idea of legal aid for charities. If it is available in practice they might be expected to know about it. However, the Minister says that the Legal Services Commission is able to grant it. Will he give chapter and verse when replying? The Minister also argued at col. 216 of the report of our proceedings on 28 June that the Attorney-General has power to intervene on behalf of charities and test cases and that that, coupled with legal aid, is sufficient. I do not believe that total reliance on the Attorney-General or the Legal Services Commission helping poor charities is either sensible or adequate. I reiterate that the creation of a suitors’ fund was a recommendation of the Prime Minster’s Strategy Unit and has received the strongest possible support from the charity sector, including the NCVO and a number of other representative voluntary bodies. From their knowledge and experience of the sector and its needs, they do not believe that the further development of charity law should depend on the willingness or ability of charities, trustees and others to pay for appeals to the tribunal or the court. Nor do they, or I, believe that the Attorney-General can invariably be relied on to take such appeals forward. I approve of the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Phillips. Going to the High Court and the tribunal should be amalgamated into one amendment. Perhaps we can look at that together at the next stage if he does not press the amendment to a Division this evening.