Charities Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am loath to get up, but the amendment covers more than just the pension issue. I thought the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, was rather skirting around the broader issue. We have accepted in earlier debates that we have established a great measure of independence here, and it is wrong of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, to suggest that this is by grace and favour of a Minister. It is established practice, not just with the Charity Commission, but with the other non-ministerial government bodies. This is a tried and tested mode of operation. The noble Lord seeks to upset that and a lot more, relating to staff terms and conditions, pensions and so on. Before taking that step, he should retreat and think seriously about what he is achieving here.