Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill

As the Minister and my hon. Friend realise, I was not expecting the Minister to grab new clause 5 with both hands, unlike earlier new clauses and amendments, but it is an important issue. I am grateful for the way in which the Minister has addressed it. Although I hear what the Minister says about believing that the new clause would work against the interests that he and I share—certainly that is not my intention—he misses the key point. The trade would basically be banned, and at present it is not banned. The purpose of new clause 5 is to ban it, with a few exceptions, which I described. I would dread to cross swords with my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall) on anything ornithological. We share a concern about the illegal trade, but I urge him to look at what has happened in America. All the advice that I have received from eminent bodies such as the RSPB and the RSPCA is that the American Act, which has dramatically reduced the legal trade by effectively banning it, with a few exceptions, has also reduced dramatically the illegal trade. We share the objective and perhaps I would have shared my hon. Friend’s doubts or scepticism about it had I not seen the evidence for myself. On the length of time that a nest is classified as a nest, I do not dispute my hon. Friend’s point that perhaps seven or 10 years would be better. He agreed with me that to protect a nest in perpetuity, which is the position at present, is perhaps wrong. I still believe that. I am sorry that the Minister seems to believe that that should be the case. I accept that one could argue that no one knows how long a nest has been in existence. I agree that the problem would get far worse if the Minister accepted my hon. Friend’s amendment and that 6,000 sites would have to be monitored, but the numbers of the three birds listed in clause 46 can be counted on one or two hands. All the ornithological bodies will know when a nest was last used because every nesting site is well known, mapped, recorded and monitored, so it would not have been a huge issue to protect the sites for a specific period. Perhaps the Minister will reflect on that in another place. I am conscious that there are other issues to debate, and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.