Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill [HL]

Indeed, my Lords, not all of us. We wish that we did not have to declare such an interest but, unfortunately, the years pass by uncontrollably. We welcome the opportunity to discuss ways of   helping older people in Wales. The Assembly Government have done wonderful things already. Free   bus travel was introduced for over-60s when the Lib-Lab coalition was in power in Cardiff. We also have free sports facilities, such as swimming pools. Free bus passes have not only helped older people but kept bus routes alive, so everybody has benefited. If the proposal for a commissioner for older people is realised it will be the first, not only in Europe, but in the world. As a proud Welshman I should possibly vote for it without any thought of suspicion or objection. We have an older population. In Conwy, where the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, is from, and in my area nearly 27   per cent of the population is of that age group—and, of course, it is advancing over the years. I know that the Minister has explained to some extent why we are discussing the Bill prematurely but surely there is a massive lack of foresight. It is a mystery to me. The consultation process finishes today, and the plenary session of the Assembly will discuss and vote on the matter tomorrow. We seem to be in some strange area. I hope that we will have the results of the consultation tomorrow in the Printed Paper Office and that we will have the full results and the Assembly’s decisions before Committee. We are also concerned that many matters in the Bill will be decided by regulations. An explanation is required from the Minister on when they will be available in draft. Will they be available in draft in Committee, or will there just be a statement of policy intent? We would like to know exactly where we stand on that. There was a time when, if anyone in Wales reached the age of 90, we put up the flags, called out the village band and had a massive tea party. It was wonderful. We would say, ““Mrs Jones is 90 years of age””. Now, it is not even a cause for comment. If someone reaches 100 years of age, we might put a note in the newspaper, but that is about all. Our people are living longer. It is possibly tremendous to look forward to living longer, but it brings its problems. Families are more sparse and perhaps there is no one to support the older person—for example, his or her partner might have died. So much is a disadvantage as one reaches the upper limits of that age range. People are living in isolation, which is a big problem. The families and contemporaries of a person may have gone and he or she is left alone. There is also the struggle to preserve dignity and a sense of well-being. We read of some instances of people in nursing or residential homes who are not well cared for. My experience is that most of those places do a first-class job. There are few cases of poor or cruel treatment. We hope that the commissioner may be in a position to look into those incidents. However, if I am right—the Minister can explain or clarify this—in Clause 4 the definition of a public service, whose functions are subject to review, is a body half of whose expenditure is met directly from payments made by the Assembly. Will any provider of residential services fall outside the scope of the commissioner’s power of investigation? We would like clarification on that. Would the appointment of a commissioner for older people achieve its stated aims? If in any way it will, we must support it. If it will succeed where others have failed, it will have our support. The crucial question is whether the lives of the older people of Wales will be improved by this appointment. Could she or he act where the public services ombudsman cannot? Would extending the remit of the ombudsman, without establishing a whole new office, be just as effective? A few months ago Parliament amalgamated three ombudsmen in Wales so that there would be no confusion. People would be able to take their problems to a one-stop shop and not have to try here and there.   Is the establishment of a commissioner likely to increase uncertainty and confusion? We would like an answer to that. What will be the relationship between the ombudsman and the commissioner? What will be the relationship between the commissioner and the proposed new Commission for Equality, due to start in 2006? What impact will the commissioner’s work have on the Human Rights Act 1998 as it relates to older people? I am sure that the Minister will clarify those points. What will be the relationship between the commissioner’s powers and the investigative duties that are already the responsibility of the Association of Directors of Social Service? That is another area that we need to be clear on. The cost of creating this new post, which is made up of 30 appointments, will initially be £0.5 million. Then it is estimated to be £1.5 million every year. Is that the best way of using that money? As the Minister has told us, the sum will come from the existing Assembly budget. There will not be an extra penny from the Treasury. Could that money be spent more effectively on providing other services for the elderly? Noble Lords will know of the Liberal Democrat aim to provide free personal care for the elderly, as provided in Scotland. Of course, £1.5 million will not meet that. But could some services that are not free at the moment be made freely available to the elderly? Could the money support voluntary organisations which are in the front line of working for the elderly—for example, the WRVS, Age Concern, local   organisations for older people and carers’ organisations, which, in my home area, are this week facing cuts in grant support? We know how the CAB has often struggled for financial support. Are we satisfied that the money could not be better spent in that way? Are we completely convinced that the present training courses and facilities for those who care for the elderly are as good as they could be? Would a bit more funding improve those courses? A big problem is that the commissioner will be able to deal only with areas of responsibility that are devolved to the Welsh Assembly. We have been told by   the Minister that there will be an informal arrangement, which will make it possible for the non-devolved areas also to receive the commissioner’s attention. We want more clarification on that. This could be a massive stumbling block when we come to vote on the Bill. Many of the complaints that older   people have are about pensions, benefits and non-devolved matters. The CAB told me that last year, throughout the UK, there were 1.5 million complaints about pensions and benefits. Is it not crucial that the commissioner’s remit include the ability to deal with those questions? We want to see a clear mechanism for the commissioner to contact Whitehall and Cardiff and a formal process of response. We would like the Assembly to be required to give a public response to any inquiry from the commissioner. Experience has shown that the informal mechanisms in place for the Children’s Commissioner have not proved entirely satisfactory. We welcome the power of the commissioner to promote the development of effective and comprehensive advocacy, complaints and whistleblowing arrangements. However, we are concerned that the commissioner will   have no powers to enforce any recommendations. We would like to see more protection for those whistleblowers reporting on practices which perhaps are not against criminal law, but which deny older people dignity—for example, the unacceptable treatment of an older person in a care home. There is now no protection in the Bill in an unregulated setting for the whistleblower. Finally, although we understand the impact that there would be on other legislation, if the definition of older people is changed to a younger age—say 50 or 55 years old—the advantage of having some flexibility would allow the commissioner where necessary to assist folk who are under the age of 60, perhaps regarding employment matters, health matters or people who have taken early retirement. For instance, in Wales, for many years we battled for rights for people who suffered from pneumoconiosis. If a commissioner is appointed—for example, as regards Alzheimer’s, dementia and physical disability—is there not a case for him to have flexibility to deal with those instances? There are many questions to be answered. The Minister agrees that in Committee we will have our work cut out to discuss the amendments needed to make the Bill one that, in its essence, will make the lives of the older people of Wales more fulfilling and satisfying. We on the Liberal Democrat Benches look forward to further discussions and hope that the Bill will be of the sort that we will be happy to support.