Racial and Religious Hatred Bill

My right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Frank Dobson) spoke powerfully about the need to do something. That is always a powerful call, and no one who has taken part in the debate has dissented from the proposition that there is an issue that needs to be tackled. Our task when we turn to legislation is to decide whether the issue is being tackled in the most appropriate way. It probably would have been much better for the Government to introduce a separate piece of religious hatred legislation, not to piggy-back it on the top of existing racial hatred legislation. That is the source of much of the difficulty that we have experienced. That is why we have worried about the absence of a definition of religion or of hatred and about the fusion of issues of belief and believers. It is not good enough simply to say that we should do something because certain people are under serious attack or pressure, because there is a line that it would be very dangerous to cross—the line that says, ““You cannot properly and legitimately attack religious belief systems.”” It is fundamental to our kind of society that we are able to attack religious belief systems as we can attack political belief systems, cultural belief systems, and all other types of belief systems. Perhaps the Government said, as part of their conversation with the communities that came to them, ““We want to do everything that we can to protect you, but you in turn must understand that it is part of this society that people are able legitimately to attack religious belief systems.”” Those things that are hateful should be hated; we should not be too squeamish about that. I would caution those who have suggested that the events of the past few days contribute decisively to the arguments about the Bill. One could make the argument on both sides. One could argue that it is even more necessary to preserve the right to attack religious bigotry in all its forms, given that people use religion as a cloak for all kinds of extremism. It would be just as possible to argue that because whole communities may be victimised because of what has happened, we need to give them extra protection. Both arguments could be made, but it is not sensible at this moment to deploy either of them. We should try to keep our heads and get the balance right. New clause 4, which I tabled, was, for some reason, not called. Perhaps I missed the moment. It meant that I was deprived of the opportunity of telling my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary that I intended to withdraw it. However, I was going to withdraw it on the basis that I am a gullible chap, he is a gentle and persuasive Minister and I therefore keep believing everything that he tells me. My hon. Friend told me on Second Reading that he would table an amendment that would deal with our concerns and provide the appropriate balance. I was therefore disappointed when I discovered today that he had not done that. He has now told me that he will re-examine the matter and that my amendment was too weak. By implication, he wants a stronger amendment. He must therefore be prepared to consider the next stage and return with an amendment that covers our concerns and finds the correct balance. In that spirit, had I been given the opportunity, I would have withdrawn the amendment.